Based on having watched
The Wind That Shakes the Barley and
Michael Collins, two films that rouse sympathies on opposite sides of the Irish Civil War, which side do you think you would have taken in the conflict? Defend your perspective with historical evidence.
After watching the first movie I was obviously more sympathetic for the republicans but after the second movie I found myself feeling more sympathetic towards the Free Staters. If I were living in Ireland in the early 1900’s I believe I would be for the Free Staters. I think that if the British were willing to give any land back at all, the Irish should take what they can get and settle for a little bit at a time. The country was chaotic at that point and I believe it would have benefitted the Irish to accept the treaty and wait rather than starting to fight amongst themselves. If Michael Collins didn’t accept the treaty than they might have been left to start all over again getting the Republic back. Accepting the treaty was a good way to start getting the whole Nation back, and in the end the British have the power to give and take what they want so it would be more advantageous to the Irish to give a little rather than asking for all of Ireland back all at once.
ReplyDeleteAfter watching both films, I would have sided with Michael Collins and the free staters. While it would be ideal to have the whole island of Ireland under the rule of the Irish Republic, it was an unrealistic goal during the treaty negotiations after the Anglo-Irish War. Eamon DeValera set up Michael Collins to fail because he knew it was impossible to get the whole of Ireland in the treaty with the British. The IRA and its political affiliate Sinn Fein are a little too radical for me. I would have fought diplomatically like Daniel O’Connell did in the early 1800’s and tried to annex Northern Ireland that way. It worked for Gandhi when he was peacefully fighting British rule in India, so if it were done well it could work for Ireland too. Also, my dad’s cousin was murdered by the IRA in 1984, so I have been raised to dislike the IRA. It is hard to agree with a group that kills its own people. Here is an interesting article about a Sinn Fein politician who was in the IRA and it quotes my dad’s cousin: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/12/ira-relative-martin-mcguinness-blood
ReplyDeleteLiving in Ireland during the civil uprising, there would obviously be a lot of tension as a citizen of the country. Many Irish people wanted total freedom from the British Empire where as many other citizens were afraid or didn’t care enough to form a strong opinion. In class, we watched two movies on the topic. One, from the point of view of Damian who was against the British even after the proposal of the treaty and the other in support of the famous Michael Collins who fought for freedom by fostering the treaty and settling for split rights of the Irish people.
ReplyDeleteIt is somewhat difficult for me to chose which side I would fight with during the Irish civil war. However if I were to live in Ireland I would want freedom. Therefore, I would support the Republicans (Damian, Eamon De Valera) against the rule of the British Empire. It is a clear trend of history that people always seek freedom, thus it is unsurprising that the people of Ireland were upset living under the rule of the king. They were willing to do anything that was necessary to rid their land of the King’s troops and his rule. While some might view this violence as rash and unnecessary, it was the only way to attract the attention of the British government and provoke change.
Many Irish men gave their lives fighting for a cause that they were not guaranteed success. Their acts motivated fellow Irish citizens and sparked an ever-growing movement. It is this infectious spread of national pride and will to insight change that would have motivated me to join the cause against Britain. The Republicans were willing to fight to the death because they knew that the only way to invoke lasting chance was to obtain total freedom.
In comparison, it is not hard to sympathize with the slightly more reserved tactics of Michael Collins and the Free Staters. It is understandable that many Irish people saw the treaty as a stepping-stone for peaceful delegations towards freedom. However, sticking with my opinion, this tactic, though diplomatic, did not render the same emotion and force as that of the violent path, therefore making it less likely to succeed when standing up against an all-powerful British government.
Though it would have been hard to live peacefully in Ireland during the times following the treaty, I would continue to fight for the greater goal of total independence. I believe that it would benefit the country in the long run and I would sacrifice in order to make Ireland a freer place.
I think that living in Ireland at the time of the Irish Civil War going on I may have felt differently depending on not only what my family's views were, but also who I cared about that was fighting for either side and why. Both movies depict a very different aspect of both sides. In The Wind That Shakes the Barley I was "Pro Damien" because I didn't see a reason to stop fighting for something when they were so close. However, after watching Michael Collins I was pro Treaty. In The Wind That Shakes the Barley it was as if fully defeating the British was actually possible, and not only possible but very close. Although, while watching Michael Collins, I realized that fully defeating the British really wasn't as in reach as everyone in the IRA fighting in the Anglo-Irish War thought. It was very far away. After fighting for two years and not having any part of the republic I would think that gaining a majority of the country would be a well rewarded rest to a long term war.
ReplyDeleteI think at heart I would have been a part of the Sinn Fein because I would want my entire country to be free, and not want the British to have power over me in any way. However, if I really wanted what the Sinn Fein wanted then I would know that the only way that would be possible is to be part of the Free Staters, and to slowly eat away at the British rule. Also if I had know that Eamon DeValera hadn't played a major role in moving the IRA forward it would persuade me even more not to follow his leadership in the Sinn Fein because he wasn't someone that would get something done in the long term, or the short term. However, in the Irish civil war that followed I know that Michael Collins was someone that wanted the best for the state and was willing to do anything to accomplish it, even if that meant losing the reputation he had taken so long to build. To me Michael Collins was correct when he is said, "In my opinion it gives us freedom, not the ultimate freedom that all nations desire ... but the freedom to achieve it." Which is true, gaining such a large part of Ireland (accepting the treaty) would be a major stepping stone in gaining the entire country.
The Wind that Shakes the Barley and Michael Collins tend to draw out two sides of the conflict between three parties. First, the Easter Rising in 1916, which included the Black and Tans wanting their rule over Ireland and the Irish Republicans. And secondly, between the Irish Republicans and free staters.
ReplyDeleteSince all Irishmen can remember, they wanted their Republic to be free from England’s rule. Naturally, after the Easter Rising occurs and the IRA gains its freedom from the British, the fight isn’t over. The Anglo- Irish War produces a Treaty in 1922. The treaty stated that there was to be an Irish Free-State, which was composed of 26 counties, and Northern Ireland, which were the last 6 counties. Northern Ireland would still be under British rule. This then commenced a split between the Irish people that wanted all of Ireland and the Irish people that were willing to settle for the free state.
Sinn Fein, which was the Anti-Treaty, would keep fighting greedily until they (the Republicans) got all of Ireland. They are showing their love for Ireland and it’s entirety, not just 26 counties of it. However, their desire for war doesn’t end well. People like Damian, a Republican, from The Wind that Shakes the Barley kept fighting because he was greedy. Britain gave the Republicans a taste of what they wanted, and they run with it. In opposition, Michael Collins in Michael Collins or Teddy O’Donovan in The Wind that Shakes the Barley was both willing to settle for a partial Independence of Ireland. This is the side I take. 26 counties were enough for them to draw back their guns and be satisfied with the treaty. This peaceful action wasn’t greedy and these Free-staters saw ratifying the treaty as a step towards further independence in the future. They still loved Ireland and as nationalists, wanted their freedom but being Pro-treaty was a more strategic way of gaining what they wanted from the British.
In my opinion, the Republicans were very passionate nationalists, as most are, but they went to far in continuing the fight for the independent republic. If it were me, I would have stopped and been at peace with Ireland as a free state. To keep fighting for something that was already decided is a lost cause since the free staters won the Irish Civil War. The conditions without the British were better than times with British rule so I wish all of Ireland realized this. Even though, Republicans, like Eamon DeValera felt that the treaty was a betrayal of the Irish Republic, the free staters never wanted to betray their nation. They just wanted peace and wanted the war to be over. In ratifying the treaty, they gained not only independence but also peace. They would be no more attacks from the British Army and the 26 counties could be separate from the United Kingdom. This is what seems right to me.
The Irish Civil War, which took place from June 28, 1922 to May 24, 1923, was a war to establish the Irish Free State separate and independent from the United Kingdom. There were two sides in the war- the Free Staters and the Republicans. Before the treaty was made, the fighters were all part of the IRA. These two sides weren’t made until after the treaty was approved. The movies The Wind that Shakes the Barley and Michael Collins show what happened during the Irish Civil War. Everyone in Ireland wanted independence. However, there were people that wanted to continue fighting even after they gained their independence. People who were considered Republican were Damian, Eamon DeValera and Harry Boland. All of these men wanted to keep fighting for their independence of Ireland, even after the treating was put forth. These men were all part of the Sinn Fein, which was the group of Republicans after the split because of their opinions of the treaty. The men of Sinn Fein wanted to continue to fight for their independence. In the case of the Irish Civil War, I would take the side of the Free Staters, which included Michael Collins and Teddy O’Donovan. After the treaty was made to establish the Irish Free State, they saw that as a stepping -stone. They thought that there was no need to continue fighting when peace had been granted. Michael Collins was a leader in seeking independence, and was a leader of the Free Staters. He was looked upon by many people. If I were living in this time period, I would have looked up to him as a hero. He fought for the country of Ireland and tried to establish independence and peace. Why would someone, or a group of people want to keep fighting after they have settled with another country for freedom and independence? It doesn’t make sense to me. In fighting for his country, Michael Collins was shot by a member who opposed for settling with the treaty. To this day, people are still conflicted about who shot Michael Collins.
ReplyDeleteIn 1919 the Irish announced their intentions of becoming separate from Great Britain. After many brutal battles and numerous deaths on both sides, the British were ready to sign a treaty with the Irish. The treaty known as the Anglo-Irish Treaty. It divided Ireland, giving six northern counties to the British, known as Northern Ireland, and the rest of Ireland would be its own country known as the Irish Free State.
ReplyDeleteThe treaty divided the people of Ireland as well. Those in favor of the treaty were known as the Free Staters. Those opposed to the treaty became known as the Republicans. This division caused an Irish Civil War between the Free Staters and the Republicans. It tore families apart and pinned neighbors against each other.
In The Wind that Shakes the Barley I was very sympathetic towards Damien O' Donovan and the Republicans. They were fighting for what they believed in and were attempting to gain the entirety of Ireland. When Damien's brother Teddy killed Damien, it made me even more sympathetic towards the Republicans. In Michael Collins, however, I was sympathetic towards the Free Staters. They were able to gain freedom from Britain and almost got all of Ireland under their control. They knew that fighting for those other six counties was useless and would just cause more war and death. Eamon DeValera was the Republican leader and best friend of Free Stater Michael Collins. It was sad to see these friends torn apart and eventually DeValera ordered the killing of Michael Collins.
If I was in Ireland during the time of the Civil War it would have been a hard decision to be a Free Stater or a Republican. I would obviously want to gain all of Ireland from Britain like the Republicans, but it seemed like a lost cause. After all the deaths I would have seen and the wars I would have been a part of, I would just want to have a time of peace. I am all for fighting til the end and for what you believe in, but it was impossible to gain all of Ireland. I wouldnt want to fight against my brothers, friends, or neighbors. I would have probably sided with the Free Staters because they thought logically and realized they received the best they could, an Irish Free State. Even though Northern Ireland belonged to the Brits, the treaty was seen by Free Staters as a stepping stone in a long road to Independence from Britain.
The Irish Civil War was a conflict between the Republicans fighting for the independence of all of Ireland and the Free Starters fighting to maintain a treaty that would most surely prevent a deadly war between Ireland and Britain. The Republicans believed that Northern Ireland belong to Ireland and not to Britain. Free Starters believed that upholding a treaty with Britain, allowing them to maintain control of Northern Ireland, was the best option. While Republicans have motive to fight for country that was formerly their own, the view of the Free Starters, led by Michael Collins, was more informed and had better motives.
ReplyDeleteWhen Michael Collins returned from London with news of a treaty that gave the British Northern Ireland, roughly half the country was in an uproar, while the other half was celebrating. When Eamon De Valera sent Collins to London to negotiate a treaty, he knew that Britain would always maintain a part of Ireland, no matter the negotiations. De Valera also knew that Collins would have to accept the treaty as if he did not, he would start a war that Collins knew Ireland could not win. Collins eventually picked the lesser of two evils and accepted a treaty giving up Northern Ireland. Upon his return he announced the terms of the treaty and swore that this was a stepping-stone towards a truly free Ireland. De Valera knew the treaty would not satisfy much of the country and switched sides to oppose the terms of treaty. The fact that sways my decision to side with Collins the most is that if this treaty were not accepted, a devastating war between Britain would have been instigated. This war would almost certainly result in the loss of Ireland completely.